Still Talking About Not Talking
September 17, 2008
What was I saying about those boys of mine and their little pussy head colds? AW, POOR BABIES. EIGHT MONTHS PREGNANT. YOU'VE BEEN TRUMPED.
Well. Uh. You know what else trumps your pussy head cold? EIGHT MONTHS PREGNANT WITH A HEAD COLD. Oh, God. The agony. The pressure. The postnasal drip.
(Or...am I NINE months pregnant now? I am IN my ninth month, but have COMPLETED eight months? Are you only considered nine months pregnant right at your due date or do you get to whine dramatically about being NINE MONTHS PREGNANT WITH A HEAD COLD or NINE MONTHS PREGNANT AT THE GROCERY STORE or NINE MONTHS PREGNANT AND STILL EXPECTED TO TIE MY OWN SHOES for a couple weeks before that? I can never really follow the pregnancy math, but I would like it to work out to my optimal whining advantage.)
Last night we attended our very first Back To School Parents' Night Thing at Noah's preschool. I was a little bummed, frankly -- I thought there would be punch. Maybe cookies. Instead we got handouts and sat around perched on teensy little chairs and discussed our Educational Goals, Wishes and Dreams for our not-quite-three-year-olds. And the policies on birthday cupcakes. I learned a few things:
1) On the very first day of school, Noah was the first and only child to spontaneously request to go potty, and he started a small wave of peer-pressure-induced lining-up to go potty, including his non-potty-trained peers. I think this means we Win, and that I should get a Dora sticker.
2) The new obsession with pirates and talking like a pirate? No, he didn't get that from school, and as such, it remains a total mystery. Arrrr.
3) Other kids talk about Noah to their parents, but Noah simply refers to everybody and everything that he encounters at school as..."school." His teacher is School, his classmates are School, the paints are School. The playground, of course, is FUCKING AWESOME.
4) His social language continues to be a problem, as he doesn't really understand how to ask or answer questions or talk about anything that isn't going on right in front of him, in the present tense. Ask him about what happened earlier in the day and you'll get nothing beyond confused silence, since...no...he's NOT painting right now, why are you talking about painting? There are no paints. You're boring me, and I am going to wander away now. He rarely attempts to converse with other kids, except to mimic their speech or roar at them like a dinosaur. Or a pirate.
5) His teacher has a son in elementary school with a PDD-NOS diagnosis. She became a preschool teacher while advocating for him during his early childhood education, since she found she needed to literally be with him in his classrooms in order to make sure his needs were being met and understood.
After Jason and I left and went off to search elsewhere for some damn punch and cookies, we realized we'd both come to the same conclusion, and after picking Noah up from school today and I went and upped his enrollment to five days a week.
The other kids in his class are...wow...way beyond Noah in terms of their verbal abilities. I know I'm not supposed to compare him to other kids; I know he moves at his own pace; I know he's special and gifted in his own quirky little way, but...wow. I'm not neurotic (much), but I'm also not fucking deaf.
It pricks at my heart to see him wandering on the outskirts of the group, reciting entire books and and vaguely comprehensible stretches of movie dialogue to himself, and I get a little angry at myself for being so easily comforted by some damn standardized test scores that allowed the county to hand Noah his "graduation" papers and leave us standing here scratching our heads because...well...SURE he did great on a standardized test. They sat him down with one other adult and showed him pictures of dogs and balls and toothbrushes and asked him to say dog and ball and toothbrush. They told me his articulation at the single-word level meant it was okay that he's impossible to understand when he strings several words together. They told me it was okay that he couldn't ever accurately tell me what he had for lunch earlier or what his dog's name is if his dog is not right in front of him. They told me it was okay that he just roared at other children and couldn't possibly tell me about his friend Chase or Michael or Eva because...Jesus, I don't even know WHY he can't tell me.
Early Intervention's official report states that Noah's delays and developmental difficulties would "not impede or interfere with his ability to learn in a mainstream classroom." So. We're counting on that part being correct. Five days a week with the kids who can talk and the teacher who thankfully, blessedly, seems to understand our little question mark of a boy.
Hang in there Amy. At some point you'll be able to look back on these early school days and sigh in relief that you have surpassed this hurdle. Noah will be fine...I promise.
Feel better soon! All of you!
Wow. It just seems like every time you get to the top of a hill, it seems like there's another one in front of you. I know next to nothing about children (I am 6 months pregnant and planning to learn as I go) but I really admire your dedication to being sure that Noah gets everything he needs and doing whatever you have to in order for him to be understood and helped along the way. He's a beautiful kid and he is going to do great with a mom like you.
I'm so glad to hear you have a great preschool teacher who UNDERSTANDS, first hand. That has to make everything easier, even if it is still a bit of a struggle.
Pregnant with a cold? That sucks several kinds of poop.
And as far as I'm concerned, honey you've every right to complain about being TEN MONTHS pregnant. Cos that's how long it lasts. Or something.
You know, you're both still awesome parents, simply because you give such a damn about your child. I hope I can be as awesome with my kids.
The. End.
Maybe I'm not supposed to, but I find the roaring like a dinosaur at other kids to be pretty cute. And I really wish it were socially acceptable. I might try it out at work, just to see what happens.
This is why I read your blog- because I think we're leading parallel lives. (except I'm not pregnant,and could never write like you do-) :) Our little question mark of a boy is almost 3 1/2- we did the early intervention thing and also "graduated" when he turned 3. (diagnosis was speech/developmental delay) I've seen a huge improvement in his verbal skills, but he's nowhere near where his peers are (We have a weekly playgroup and it hurts my heart just a little bit each week to compare him to others) Instead of roaring, he used to bark at everyone, and couldn't figure out any kind of questions that began with "why" "what" or "when". So frustrating. But now, he's coming along and even told me the name of 2 kids in his class that he played with today. We also bumped up his preschool time from one day to three days a week and have seen a huge improvement. All of this to just say- keep with it- you are the only one that knows your child. And thank you for writing your story- to let others know that they are not alone. :)
5 days a week is the way to go. I'm psyched that his teacher has a PDD-NOS child, because she will understand Noah better and give him a better start to schooling. She will think out of the box to help him and that? Is AWESOME.
(The playground though, is probably pretty awesome too.)
I'm so excited for Noah. He may hang on the perimeter of the playground, but he'll find friends. (Or more importantly, they will find him) My son had a gaggle of girls all through elementary school befriend him and care for him. Noah will have no shortage of girls to hang with. Trust me.
Email me at crazedmommyatgmaildotcom. I would love to talk with you. Please? I have some ideas that could help, if you want them. I've been here myself, and my son is mainstreamed in the 8th grade. He's doing great.
Yay for Noah!!!
Feel better soon, k? :)
Shash
This really hits home. The chipmunk doesn't have speech delays, but has a series of weird and highly repetitive behaviors that no one can seem to diagnose. And I don't neccesarily want a diagnose but I do want to know what's going on, if he's anxious in there, if he's going to do it forever, etcetcetc IT IS SO SCARY. His behavioral ped. appointment is four days before my due date, which is awesome and is so going to end up being canceled after I waited four months for it.
Also, I'm eight months pregnant and my menfolk got me sick all this week too. Clearly we are bosom buddies.
Feel better, lady.
Get a private eval done. The school is only going to look for educational impact. That's why he graduated from speech. He can label. But it sounds like he has some weaknesses in actually using language still. The schools, to the best of my knowledge do not test for this. My son is on the spectrum, and does not and will not qualify for an IEP/special ed services. He wouldn't have as a toddler either.
Am a stranger to you, but local if you need more advice would be happy to email offline.
This really hits home. The chipmunk doesn't have speech delays, but has a series of weird and highly repetitive behaviors that no one can seem to diagnose. And I don't neccesarily want a diagnose but I do want to know what's going on, if he's anxious in there, if he's going to do it forever, etcetcetc IT IS SO SCARY. His behavioral ped. appointment is four days before my due date, which is awesome and is so going to end up being canceled after I waited four months for it.
Also, I'm eight months pregnant and my menfolk got me sick all this week too. Clearly we are bosom buddies.
Feel better, lady.
As long as Noah's happy in school and his teacher understands him, ROCK ON! I have to say you're very lucky to have found a good fit, since I have seen some preschool teachers lost it over the smallest things. And roaring like a dinosaur? That's a 10 on the cute scale.
This really hits home. The chipmunk doesn't have speech delays, but has a series of weird and highly repetitive behaviors that no one can seem to diagnose. And I don't neccesarily want a diagnose but I do want to know what's going on, if he's anxious in there, if he's going to do it forever, etcetcetc IT IS SO SCARY. His behavioral ped. appointment is four days before my due date, which is awesome and is so going to end up being canceled after I waited four months for it.
Also, I'm eight months pregnant and my menfolk got me sick all this week too. Clearly we are bosom buddies.
Feel better, lady.
If it makes you feel any better, I think the not being able to recall or talk about details in the past is not that out of the ordinary. My almost four year old, who is very verbal otherwise, still cannot or will not tell me what he did during the day if I ask him pointed questions about it. What did you do? "Played." Who did you play with> "I don't know." What did you have for lunch? "Ummm... I don't know. I don't want to talk about this anymore mommy."
I know you have other things you worry about, but maybe that one you can move over to the "not worry so much" plate? Or I could totally be talking out of my ass, which is altogether possible.
Get a private done. School system is only going to test for and look for so much. Yea, he can label things, but he still has weakness in using language, despite his ability to memorize and recite.
My son is on the spectrum and never qualifies for services in the school. I know I'm a stranger, but I'm local if you want to email me offline for advice.
Get a private done. School system is only going to test for and look for so much. Yea, he can label things, but he still has weakness in using language, despite his ability to memorize and recite.
My son is on the spectrum and never qualifies for services in the school. I know I'm a stranger, but I'm local if you want to email me offline for advice.
Good god, the Internet. Why did you post my comment three times? I leave you with some dino-love:
http://www.vimeo.com/1390873
Whether one is pregnant for 9 months or 10 months depends on what the definition of "month" is. If a month is 4 weeks, and one's due date is at the 40 week mark, well, that sounds like 10 months pregnant to me! (I went 42 weeks last time, so it's possible I mentioned this. A lot.)
Of course, most calendar months have more than 4 weeks (on February sticks to the 4), so that's where you get the 9 month thing.
Definitely, though, I'd say 36 weeks plus counts as 9 months pregnant. What? Is someone going to argue with you? Say you only look like you're 8 months pregnant? Ha!
Also, I'm really really glad that Noah has a teacher who understands his special dinosaur-roaryness and can hopefully help him learn to channel it in slightly more social directions.
We had a similar situation until one day (the day after Halloween last year) my daughter wouldn't go to sleep because she expected people to come to the door and get candy again. My husband and I looked at each other and realized that OMG, she remembers something about yesterday. It has gotten much better in the past year.
Yeah, the pregnancy math is like my son's algebra-- it does not add up! I finally figured out that you are supposed to tell everyone you're 5 months along for about 8 weeks, because you're really pregnant for 10 months, assuming you know about when you became pregnant and realize you are, which I never did, so I would go to the dr for a mono test and they'd do a pregnancy test and then a sonogram and there would be ANOTHER boy (or 2) fully formed in my womb practically waving and dancing and my GOD I'd been spending all that time on the Stairmaster for nothing.
I hope the 5 day program helps him out some! It is awesome though that the teacher is aware and can really help Noah out if she has had experience in this area!
Sorry about your head cold, that is so lame and I say you are 9 months pregnant for sure, you just kinda get to skip saying I am 8 months and jump to 9! haha
The pregnancy math drives me mad. I blogged about it two weeks ago (particularly the part where my husband doesn't believe a pregnancy lasts 10 months). Anyway, it's annoying, I feel you.
Good luck to Noah. And feel better!
Not that the comments of a complete stranger are relevant, but reading about your son was like reading into the PAST. I was impossible to understand until I was six (and probably past that, I'm not sure I want to ask :) and drove my family crazy. I got along well enough with the other kids but I was the youngest and my inability to, uh, communicate, I was in small groups. ANYWAY I'm compelled to comment (from my workplace! I'm so busted!) because now I'm a wordsmithin' chatterbox (you won't know from the Internet but in person, boy howdy!) Now my only problem is I speak really fast. :) I hope Noah will have a huge vocabulary and leave everyone in the dust too. :)
My kid doesn't have any fancy non-specific diagnoses, but her speech has been rather delayed. At her 2-year checkup they encouraged us to see a speech therapist but decided that getting her miniscule size looked at was more important. (Guess what? It turns out she's short.) At day care they debated over leaving her with the toddlers or putting her in preschool, which is one class with anybody who's not old enough for kindergarten. We decided to give preschool a try, and HOLY CRAP what a difference it made. She'll be 3 next month. She still doesn't tell us what she did during the day, but if you ask whether she painted or made banana bread or whatever she will answer correctly. Things that make an impression, like Daddy's minor car accident, are topics for discussion for weeks. I guess hanging out with the big kids is helping her. Dora and Diego are a big help, too. I overheard her counting in Spanish the other day! Sheesh.
Ack! Of course there should have been PUNCH!
I really think (I have one whole whopping year of experience as a preschool teacher, would still be doing it if we hadn't mooooooooved! dang it I miss my kids!) that being in preschool with all those other kids and being in the midst of all that language is going to be awesome for Noah. I could tell you stories about one particular child I had last year, and how I was so sure he was somewhere on the spectrum of autism. All the teachers were concerned. HHe did get some help and yet what I saw was just the power of socialization doing its work, day by day. You're doing the right thing, and you're so far ahead of the game, I really believe this. Noah is awesome and I love that he has so much personality that he's rocking his schoolmates' little world!
Ack! Of course there should have been PUNCH!
I really think (I have one whole whopping year of experience as a preschool teacher, would still be doing it if we hadn't mooooooooved! dang it I miss my kids!) that being in preschool with all those other kids and being in the midst of all that language is going to be awesome for Noah. I could tell you stories about one particular child I had last year, and how I was so sure he was somewhere on the spectrum of autism. All the teachers were concerned. HHe did get some help and yet what I saw was just the power of socialization doing its work, day by day. You're doing the right thing, and you're so far ahead of the game, I really believe this. Noah is awesome and I love that he has so much personality that he's rocking his schoolmates' little world!
My nephew is 4 and loves to Roar like a dinosaur. Nothing wrong with roaring! He will be fine. 5 days a week will be great for him.
Ah and another note about the roarer...he is now living in Africa and when they went to get their passports he is roaring in his photo at the photographer...it is hysterical!
Oh, typepad, why would you eat my comment? Well, at least I can write less of a manifesto this time.
This gist of it was that because of my 2-year-old's delayed speech, day care debated over whether to leave her with the toddlers for a while or move her up with the other pre-schoolers (one class of about 8 with 2-5 year olds). We decided to put her in the preschool and it's made SO much difference. I don't think she's totally caught up yet, but she's got to be close. She'll be 3 next month, and I don't think her doctor will be making the speech therapy noises this time.
I know that Noah's got more difficulties than my kid, but I hope his class helps him as much! The peer-pressure potty thing is something to be proud of. :)
34 weeks pregnant with a head cold, just checkin' in to commiserate with the misery here.
Also to say YAY for a knowledgeable teacher. Sounds like the perfect place for Noah to be.
Hey, maybe the kid was friends with Eckhart Tolle in a previous life because, boy, does he know how to live in the now moment or what?
Three is still very young, and for some, it's younger than others, meaning some kids lag behind in social development and do things like roar at friends. We use to call them immature for their age. At 3, it isn't unusual for kids to still play along side instead of with other kids.
BTW, I just asked my 8-year-old what he had for breakfast. He couldn't remember. He's one of the smart but absented minded professor types. My 5 year-old can remember, but he's one of those smart follow the books type. It's amazing how different kids can be and still turn out ok.
De-lurking to put in my two cents, I know that Noah is on the SI/autism spectrum. Have you guys considered an ABA (applied behavioral analysis) program for him? I work with kids with autism, a huge part of what we teach is language, a lot of our kids come in with a language that sounds similar to Noah's... At his age, most kids make great progress. Just a thought though...
So a teacher who's been there & done that AND the ability to sign him up for 5 days/week AND a baby just about to make his debut. You must've done something right in a past life.
Hang in there. I think at this point in your pregnancy its okay to refer to months as eons, anyway.
I'm glad Noah has a good teacher who's on top of things. And I'm glad you were able to sign him up for 5 days a week.
All kids develop at different rates. And some of them focus on certain things and not others. Our 3-year old has a wonderful vocabulary, but still roars at his friends like a dinosaur, and he is extremely slow to grow since he refuses to eat. I have no doubt that Noah is more advanced than average in some areas and a bit behind in others. I'm no expert, but to me, that seems normal. 'Cause that's how our son is.
It will all work out. I'm sure he'll catch up.
I hope the rest of your pregnancy goes swiftly. And I hope you found some really good punch and cookies!
What? Roaring like a dino isn't acceptable at work? Oh, *that*'s why I get those icky performance reports ...
No, really, sounds like Noah's teacher is a great win for your family. Congrats.
And yes, you're so totally nine months pregnant. Because I am so totally seven months (almost). You always count from the beginning of the month, and you're entitiled to just that many pints of Ben&Jerry's New York Super Fudge Chunk a day. Ha!
Maybe he's just in the wrong school. In my city they actually offer Pirate Classes for young tots, and I'm positive your son would be setting the standard there and all the other parents would be blogging abou how their kids have such a long way to go. Just a thought.
At your due date, you are ten months pregnant.
I don't know anything about speech development or delay, but it sounds like you are doing what is right for him, and he sounds like a smart little boy. He'll figure it out.
Amy.. I know that no two children are the same but my grandson, who is ten now, had us worried sick when he was 2 and 3. His lack of verbal skills seem very close to what you are experiencing with Noah. More than one or two words strung together and no one could understand him.. he couldn't seem to answer our questions, and we also had the bonus of unexplained meltdowns and tantrums..he was so frustrated.
He was in preschool and saw speech therapists and behavioural therapists and had hearing tests but there was very little change for a while.
Guess what? Not long after he turned 4, he just...caught up! On his own. Out of the blue almost.
At 10, he does very well in school and in this Grandma's eyes he is the sweetest, smartest, most wonderful boy ever. He is an articulate little speaker now!
I truly think the daily interaction in preschool was the turning point. I think you are wise handling this the way you are.
Noah is gorgeous, and congratulations on the new baby, dear.
I love your writing..you remind me a lot of my girls. I think they would like you. :)
(We are awaiting grandbaby number six now - Alex still has dibs on being the only boy so far!)
Noah is clearly preparing for National Talk Like a Pirate Day on September 19. He's right on time!
Your site was reccomended to me from a friend. I have two with learning disabilites. One with auditory processing disorder and language expressive disorder and one with autism and developmental delays. I so know what your dealing with. Although Having my son in preschool has made a HUGE difference in his ability to communicate. Granted he can't remember names or tell me what he did that day. But at least he's talking. . . non stop . . to the point it's exhausting. . . seriously! I get tired just listening to him. LOL but he sure is a special boy!
My son started "preschool" (read glorified daycare) when he was 3 1/2. He's never had any developmental or congnitive delays. Still, the difference between his vocal skills one week before beginning preschool and just one week after was so incredibly dramatic. Though I can't necessarily brag about some of the actual things he's learning to say - Hang in there Noah will be randomly talking about chicken butts and his best friend eating a cricket in no time!
Just - I'm sorry and I hope it gets better.
Rooting for you and your family. :)
Riley's always been pretty verbal but he canNOT be counted on to tell us what happened during his day at school. What did they eat? Ummm, turkey samwich. Oh, even though your sheet says spaghetti? BLANK STARE. Who did you play with? Um, played with toys. Etc. I've been wondering when this might change -- the only thing he'll tell us about is if there was a Traumatic Event (OMG BALLOONS LET US NEVER TALK OF THEM AGAIN).
Anyway, the real reason I'm commenting is to say that massively pregnant + head cold = completely fucking unfair and horrible. Hope it passes quickly. And that you don't get a cough that makes you pee yourself all day long. Which may have happened to, uh, someone I know.
Well, Friday is National Talk Like a Pirate Day, aka Noah's Time To Shine! I think he's probably just preparing.
As for the rest...bon courage, as the French say. We're all rooting for you - all of you.
A great teacher is key, and it sounds as though you found that. She can reassure you about the things that you should NOT freak out about, and the things you might want to watch (aka sweat over). I'm so happy that you found a great teacher.
Well, Charlene and DiaryofWhy beat me to it--Friday is indeed International Talk Like a Pirate Day. As a teacher, I know that Noah has someone looking out for him at school who really does know what to look for. Don't know if this makes you feel better, but my sister could barely count to ten at age five and she ended up getting all As at Yale, so things may well turn around. Sounds like you're getting good advice from fellow posters.
Feel better!
It seems to me that what Noah emphatically has in his corner is a fight-for-it mama. That's a really great thing.
5 days of preschool should help and give you the time and experience to see where the next step is. And it will make itself clear.
And someday you will laugh about this.
I definitely think that 5 days a week is a good start, but if after a few months you don't start to see some improvement, I would ask for another evaluation. With ds's IEP in May they pused for him to be in an inclusion program in regular K even though I said he wasn't ready for that. So, after 1 week of school I asked for an IEP Review, had it today, ds will now spend the majority of his time in a cognitively imparied class and do inclusion for lunch, recess, etc. While I know that I may have to climb an uphill battle later on when he is ready for more inclusion, I know that he is much better off. I don't the public school system bothers me. Little kids are pused so hard and get homework every night, just so they can pass the SOLs. The stuff they teach in the cognitively impaired class is the same stuff that I was taught in K, some 23 years ago. Without so much pressure.
we know that noah is the best boy in the world, and you know that noah is the best boy in the world. of course, in a few weeks, you're going to have to call it a tie, i suppose.
at any rate: what can i say to make you feel better?
you are clearly the most amazing parents ever. you take less-than-perfect situations and work hard as hard can be to wrangle them into perfection, and then...even when you're not working as hard...you're blessed with little gifts like a preschool teacher who will be entirely tuned in to noah's needs for her own personal reasons.
a pack of blessings lies upon thy back!
and a feral pack of internet supporters stand behind you, noah, jaspn, and baby tivo every step of the way.
Of course, every situation is different, but having six kids and having lived through the apraxia - speech delay thing with two of them, I HIGHLY suggest that you have him evaluated by a Developmental Pediatrician. This was recommended to us by our sons' speech therapists and they were diagnosed with mild Asperger's, which as others have suggested, is on the autism spectrum. The things you mention that remind me of my life are a) hanging on the edge of the group, b) not knowing how to initiate either play or a question with peers, c) reciting stretches of movie dialogue. But as a result of the diagnoses for both of my oldest boys (and none of the other kids), they received speech, OT and behavior help, which they graduated out of before they were seven. They are now almost 11 and 9 and are bright, well liked by their classmates, play sports and are brown belts in tae kwon do. I know a couple of parents who were encouraged by the kindergarten teacher to get these evaluations and the parents didn't because they didn't want their kids labeled. Well fine, the don't have a "diagnostic label", but neither do they interact with their classmates in a way that would be perceived as "normal". Be aggressive - even though you will be dealing with a newborn, in getting what you know in your gut is necessary. At the time this was going on with my oldest two, I had four children under the age of four. You will look back and be thankful.
How AWESOME is it that Noah's teacher has experience in what Noah really needs. I hope it goes well. I hope he has a spectacular year. Hang in there. And keep asking questions, keep talking to the teacher, keep asking what you can do to continue helping him succeed. He'll get there.